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 Bill Hunter posted on Monday, September 13, 1999 - 02:22 am
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Find out how YOU can save some serious money ...
Dear Large Format Community:
Allow me two minutes of your time and I'll tell you how to save serious money on your upcoming new construction and theater retrofits projects. On January 1, 2000, FANTASIA will be made available to IMAX 15/70 theaters. Most will need to upgrade their sound systems to play back the uninterrupted 90-minute film. The cost of these upgrades could be staggering if you choose the "add on" SONICS playback configuration. Instead, you can save tons of money by choosing the DTS-6D fully compatible, six-channel playback system.
The DTS playback system can provide any IMAX theater with the ability to play back all large format films-- even films that are 90 minutes or more in length! Think about this: some doubted us, so we proved it at the IMAX 3D Theater in Indianapolis by installing an $920 timecode converter unit. The unit was connected to the current system and the soundtrack was played back on a standard DTS-6D/SV unit. This solution allowed for the same full six-track digital sound available from the IMAX/Sonics playback system.
Do you realize your savings could be as much as $55,000 for each theater? Now that's serious money. If you plan to show FANTASIA in January, there's no need to invest big money for high-priced SONICS equipment upgrade, nor will you have to worry about any additional service contract payments. Simply use your currently owned DTS-6D system, the new timecode converter box, and play any movie released in large format¯all for less than $1,000.
Customer feedback on the performance of our system has been so positive we've decided to allocate a number of specially priced DTS-6D/SV units and timecode converter boxes to help spread the word. Special deals are available through the end of the year for any existing IMAX theater.
As a recap, we'd thought you'd like to know a bit more about our digital audio products. Perhaps you didn't know that:
ˇ The DTS systems can playback any large format movie made.
ˇ With the DTS-6D/SV you own the sound playback system for as little one tenth of the cost of competing systems.
ˇ There are no service contracts to pay each year.
ˇ DTS has over 17,500 playback systems installed around the world, hundreds of times more than the number of SONICS digital installations.
Please ask why the choices given you by SONICS to playback FANTASIA 2000 did not include DTS. Serious money is at stake, why not add it to your bottom line?
I hope to see you at the GSTA.
Best regards,
Bill Hunter
Director, Special Venue Operations
DIGITAL THEATER SYSTEMS, INC.
5171 Clareton Drive, Agoura Hills, California 91301 phone (818) 706-3525 fax (818) 879-2746 e-mail: bhunter@dtsonline
All this and more from the friendly techno team at DTS!
Lise Hannibal
DTS Cinema Marketing
ph (818) 706-3525
fax (818) 879-2746
email: lhannibal@dtsonline.com |
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| Jim Walker posted on Thursday, September 16, 1999 - 10:25 am
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Mr. Hunter...
The letter you have posted contains many intriguing points. However, although I am familiar with the DTS name and reputation in the conventional cinema industry, I am still very much in the dark concerning the systems you produce for large-format theaters. I am a very satisfied user of an Imax/Sonics sound system, and am not in the market for a new system. However, I do have a few questions that I think would clarify the issues involved in this discussion, and make a direct comparison easier. Of course, please feel very free not to answer any questions that include propriatary information or that you'd rather not discuss here.
- What is included in a DTS sound playbck system? Is there control or anxilliary equipment, or is it simply a playback device (like a dubber or DA-88)?
- On what medium is the sound information stored? Is data compression used? If so, what type?
- What is the extent of your warranty? How is service handled after the warranty period is exceeded?
- How is a complete show soundtrack, including all trailers and feature, produced? How is change of show components handled? What is the turn-around time for show production/change? What is the cost for show production/change?
- Of the 17,500 DTS playback systems in operation, how many are in large-format theaters? How many in 15/70 large-format theaters? How many in theaters with Imax-brand projection equipment? Which Imax theaters?
Again, my intent is not to be provocative, but to ask questions to which I do not know the answers. Thank you very much for the information, and I look forward to continuing this discussion. |
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| Anonymous posted on Thursday, September 16, 1999 - 07:24 pm
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And even more to the point: has Disney agreed to
let the Fantasia 2000 soundtrack be transfered to
DTS discs? I imagine IMAX would do everything in
its power to prevent that from happening... |
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All of our movies are available in the DTS format, including Fantasia 2000. We have a great long-term relationship with DTS. We also have a fondness for digital sound.
Paul Holliman
Buena Vista Pictures Distribution |
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| I have never heard a DTS sound system in a large format theater, but the ones that I have heard in the local conventional theaters can't even compare to the Sonics systems. As the saying goes, "I have no quarrel with a man with a lower price. No one knows better than he what his product is worth." And from what I've heard of DTS systems, it is good that they are selling at a lower price. |
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| Anonymous posted on Tuesday, September 21, 1999 - 02:19 am
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I HAVE heard a DTS sound system in a 15/70 theater, and was quite impressed actually. I don't know how fair it is though, to use your local conventional theater experience in comparing digital output devices between the venues... Any conventional theaters have a Sonics DTAC/DDP-II in place? Why not?
Your less-than-perfect conventional theater experience could be better chalked off to accoustics, amps, EQ, and speakers. Ever heard DTS audio in a well-tuned large-format theater? How about a Sonics DTAC/DDP-II played through old amps and bad speakers?
There was probably a reason that your own theater replaced the entire Sonics sound system rather than just popping in a DTAC/DDP-II (visit Sonics for details). What did that theater's old Sonics audio system sound like in the last five years of its operation?
And as for the quote you presented on pricing, I can agree with you to a point, but one must not overlook the value of competition. DTS isn't the only game in town when a conventional theater chooses a digital audio system. They have had to compete (a concept that Sonics hasn't had to worry about since becoming a sister company to the Big I). There are more than 16,000 DTS installations, including IMAX, which chose it for their RideFilm systems (visit IMAX RideFilm for details). Did Sonics price itself right out of its own turf? |
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| Jim Walker posted on Thursday, September 30, 1999 - 10:20 am
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| Again I raise my earlier posted question: Is the DTS system all-inclusive (does it include control or amplification equipment or loudspeakers ), or is DTS a playback device? Truthfully I don't know the answer, but sound sources and sound systems are vastly different things. |
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Jim, DTS is a CD-Rom based system for digital sound. It debuted in 1993 with Spielburg's JURRASIC PARK. It features the same sound as other conventional digital systems. It is, however, ONLY a playback delivery system and does not include amplifiers, equalizers, speakers and such. Rather than placing the soundtrack on the film print, DTS choose to place timecode on the print which is read by a reader and then sent to the DTS playback unit.
Timecode can also be generated by a separate unit (E-175) for use with alternative film formats. (8/70, 10/70, 15/70 & even 16mm!)
ALL conventional cinema formats are compressed to one degree or another! SONICS was the first company that I know of, to offer UNCOMPRESSED digital sound for motion pictures. Is there a difference? COMPRESSED & UNCOMPRESSED?
There lies the mysteries of life! |
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Compression? The pro/con arguments are a lot like any other audio subject from analog/digital to tube/transistor.
Lock up the specs and the marketing bull and listen to it.
DTS, SR-D, and SDDS, the main cinema digital audio systems competing for the 35mm market, all use compression to some degree. DTS has, potentially, the least compression because its data comes from CD-Rom rather than from the film.
Dolby (SR-D)crams 5.1 channels of optically coded audio data (what's .1 of a channel? hmmm... sub-bass, but isn't that a real channel?) into the space between the sprocket holes on just one side of the print. I haven't seen published exactly how much data that is, but they have enough space to fit a tiny perfect Dolby logo into the centre of each data block!
Sony (SDDS)gets 8 channels into the 2 strips outside the sprocket holes. They don't have extra space for logos, though.
DTS codes a sort of SMPTE time code onto a very narrow strip between the analog optical track and the picture area.
Note that about the only spot left for a 4th digital format is in the frame lines if a print has to have all formats present... most 35mm prints now have analog optical and all 3 digital systems so they will work anywhere.
DTS although never publishing their compression algorithm (as far as I can find) claims less compression than SR-D.
Whatever, when I start thinking about it my brain hurts.
An audio CD has about 780 MB of useable data, 74 mins at 44.1 kHz, 16 bit, ea ch.; a per channel data rate a bit over 5MB per second . CD-Rom is about 650 MB. So, a two hour "5.1 channel" film sound track on a DTS CDrom gives you about 1MB/sec/channel.
Can we compress CD audio 5:1 or more without noticing it in the sound?
Maybe. And DTS has more likelyhood because it doesn't need to have a steady data rate. If there's NO sound it can use no data at all and if all 5.1 channels are very busy at once, at worst it can use the max data rate available from the disk for a while or much more if it buffers data in memory. This is very likely to be higher than the data rate off the film for SR-D and SDDS.
Now that I really have a headache, I suggest again that all the math and theory matters but little if they all subjectively sound excellent.
Maybe DTS would be willing to try setting up a comparison to a DDP somewhere. I don't expect it to sound as good but I think it would be nearly the same. |
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I agree that the compression issues are a lot like tube/transistor arguments in audiophile circles, but in this case, the issue is a bit more clear cut if certain facts are known.
If compression ratios of 5:1 are met by DTS, I would guess that it is a lossy compression format-- much like the mp3 format (MPEG layer 3)--since when dealing with computer file compression (non-lossy) ~ 2:1 ratios are the best I've ever seen. Lossy compression, of course, means that data is lost in the compression: the compressed audio is only an approximation of the original.
In the case of MP3, the sound quality is generally good, but with certain kinds of sounds it sucks swamp water. Listen to any MP3 having choral music on it, and the lost data is very apparent--the chorus will sound like it's full of habitual mumblers and people gargling in tune.
The limitations of lossy compression might have been addressed in making DTS, and the added support from multiple channels (you normally get some redundancy across channels) might make it unnoticeable but who knows? Really, the only advantage of compression is having less data to have to store and process (and therefore fewer CD drives).
Another issue that makes an investment in DTS (and any digital audio system that is "CD quality") questionable are the new DVD-Audio standards (to be implemented sometime next year?). People will be less likely to be impressed with a LF theatre audio system if they can get better audio quality (in theory) at home; the new standard allows 24-bit audio sampled at the new rates of 96 kHz and 192 kHz, reproduced with consumer PCs and DVD set-top boxes.
Since we're discussing audio quality here, does anyone out there know what kind of audio Sonic's new DTAC (aka DDPII) produces? I looked over the specs, and even saw one at the ASTC (didn't hear it though), but nothing mentions the sampling rate of the audio, nor how many bits per channel. |
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Which theatres installed the DTS system for Fantasia and did they use the 8P or the standard 6d
If it was the 6D how was channel orintation done to accomodate 6 discrete channels from a 5.1 system (L-C-R-LS-RS-Top) compared to (L-C-R-Ls-Rs-sub derived from LS/RS) |
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